The Rev. Carolyn Cavaness
Photo: Mother Bethel AME Church
By becoming the first woman and the first millennial to occupy the pulpit at Mother Bethel AME Church, the Rev. Carolyn Cavaness is making history at a time when history in general — and Black history in particular — is taking center stage.
By Denise Clay-Murray
As anyone who has ever visited Philadelphia can tell you, history is a big part of what makes the city special.
Right now, the nation’s 250th birthday is among the things that the City of Philadelphia is focusing on. In 2026, visitors from all over the world will be descending upon the city to visit its historical sites.
Among those sites is the Mother Bethel AME Church, located at 6th and Lombard Streets in South Philadelphia. So, the church’s new pastor, the Rev. Carolyn Cavaness, was among those gathered at the Museum of the American Revolution recently to discuss where the city stands in its planning for 2026.
At a time when there are attempts nationwide to downplay the place that African Americans have played in America’s history, places like Mother Bethel are important because the place they occupy is more than just academic, Cavaness said. For some, the church represents the first place their parents came to worship when they left the South. For others, it’s generational.
“It’s also the stories you hear,” she said. “I was talking to Council President Kenyatta Johnson, and he talked about coming to summer camp here. So, this institution — for its longevity and what she means, certainly within Black Christianity — and the American Black History story…[especially] with the 250th coming, it’s a testament that this is the only African American institution from the founding era of America that is still alive. That says a lot — especially in light of the rhetoric of erasing history.”
Cavaness was appointed Mother Bethel’s 53rd pastor shortly before the November 2024 elections, and replaces the Rev. Mark Kelly Tyler, who is now the AME’s historiographer.
She is the first woman to lead the church in its history, and before coming to Mother Bethel, the fourth-generation preacher was the first woman to lead the Bethel AME Church in Ardmore, Pennsylvania.
Cavaness is a graduate of Barnard College of Columbia University, and has a Master of Divinity degree from the Union Theological Seminary. Cavaness was deputy finance director for former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and has served on many boards, including the Black Clergy of Philadelphia and Vicinity, and the Pennsylvania League of Women Voters. She also serves as an advisor to the USDA’s Urban Agricultural County Committee for Philadelphia.
The SUN spoke with Cavaness about her new appointment, the glass ceiling that the AME Church was able to break although the country itself did not, what it means to be a pastor at a time when “Christianity” means different things to different people, and the challenge of making sure that Mother Bethel’s congregation isn’t met with too many Sunday “blessings” from the Philadelphia Parking Authority.
Rev. Cavaness meets with her parishioners.
Photo: Mother Bethel AME Church
SUN: Thank you for your time, Rev. Cavaness. You’re a fourth-generation AME Minister. What made you decide to go into the ministry?
RC: I knew that I was going to be a preacher. I was destined to be one, I think. If my dad were still living, he would talk about the time there was a snowstorm. His first church was Mount Pisgah in the Poconos, and it was a good 50 miles from home. So, he, you know, just left us home, and he went to the church. When he circled back, my Mom told him that ‘Carolyn gave the family communion today.’ I think it was just a matter of when in my life I would answer the call. I answered when I was 14.
SUN: That’s really early. And you still had high school to go through. What was that like?
RC: I preached through high school, preached through college, and then I got into development and fundraising. After I worked on Hillary Clinton’s [presidential] campaign, I enrolled in seminary at Union Theological Seminary in New York City, graduated and started pastoring in 2012. So, I’ve been pastoring for 13 years.
SUN: Now, you’re the first woman to lead this church. What does that mean to you?
RC: Well, this definitely shattered a [glass] ceiling. Women are the backbone of the Black church, so why can’t one of us be entrusted to run this institution? And I think about age, too. I mean, I’m a millennial. I was 41 when I was appointed to this position, and I just turned 42. It’s so multi-layered.
SUN: Being the pastor of the mother church of a denomination probably has a lot more responsibilities than just being the pastor of a church within that denomination. Have those hit you yet?
RC: So, I get the jokes of, ‘Oh, there’s the Mother Pastor!’ It’s the presence. So, I had an opportunity to travel to New Orleans shortly after I was appointed here. I was there for a farming conference, and I happened to be checking into my hotel and ran into a very high-level AME figure. And he’s, like, ‘Well, what are you doing here?’ I said, ‘Oh, I’m here for farming.’ Well, we’re having an annual conference. Just basically, churches within that geographic district were coming together, and they were meeting at the Mother Church, the mother AME Church in the Deep South. I had to go. So, I walk in, and then they say, ‘The Mother Pastor is here!’ and there was a roar of applause. And then people came up to take pictures. There was a young lady with her two children who said, ‘You know, we came [to Mother Bethel] in 2016 when the AME Church turned 200 as a denomination. Can we just get a picture? Because you’re the pastor. In some ways, it’s like you’re an historical figure.’
SUN: Mother Bethel has had a reputation for being involved in social justice work. Is this something you intend to continue?
RC: We have to! If not us, who? The name of this church is synonymous with activism. I mean, when Richard Allen had his conversion experience, not only did he see freedom from sin, but he also saw freedom from enslavement, and anything that kept him bound. It’s two-fold. It’s not enough to just be in the Bible. There’s a German theologian, Karl Barth, who talks about, and I’m paraphrasing him very loosely, [that] you’ve got to have the Bible and the newspaper. They’ve got to come together. And the Black church has always been the epicenter of not only ministering to the spiritual, but to the social, emotional, economic, and mental health needs of the people. That’s needed even more with what’s going on now on the national stage.
We’ve been involved in those movements for too long for us to stop. [Mother Bethel] means too much to too many people. We have students, I mean, every week we get some kind of request. ‘Can we come visit you? We just want to glean from you.’ We have some folks from Brazil, because there’s a movement around Afro Christianity and they want to come here because to them, Mother Bethel is the mother of it all. This is where it all starts.
SUN: I’m glad that you brought up the national stage because it allows me to ask a question that I think a minister could answer best. President Donald Trump represents just about everything I was taught was the opposite of Christianity. Yet, he has the support of many Christians. Why is that?
RC: I think what’s in a name, and yes, people have been calling themselves something, but that doesn’t mean they subscribe to the values and tenets of it. I think that in this moment, it provides an opportunity for the believers of Jesus Christ to counter what the culture is dictating. To be bold.
SUN: What was your first day like as the brand-new pastor coming into what is a pretty established congregation?
RC: It was amazing! So, I was appointed on Saturday, November 9, and then that Sunday, the 10th, I gave my first sermon. It was very surreal.
Rev. Cavaness delivers a powerful Word to the congregation.
Photo: Mother Bethel AME Church
SUN: Why surreal?
RC: It’s having to balance the demands of the name and the history and the legacy, but also knowing that we still have babies that need to be baptized, we’re shepherding families through grief, celebrating young people going to the prom, graduations…Those conversations are very real, and you want to be present, you know. And then having to care for this institution is a ministry in and of itself. Yes, I’m the spiritual leader, but I’m also a facilities manager, a fundraiser, a teacher, a mediator, you know, because we’re family, right? So, you have to be creative, keep breathing and remain true to the vision of our founder, Richard Allen.
SUN: Did your family come to your first sermon?
RC: My Dad passed away in 2017, but my mother was here for my first Sunday. She’s been back since. She came back in February, and then she surprised me for my birthday last week. She tunes in, so, you know, every Sunday, so I get her critique.
SUN: What is that like?
RC: Well, she says things like the choir was good, or the kids need practice. I’m, like, ‘Mommy, it’s 9:30 in the morning. I’m just grateful that these young people get here at 9:30 in the morning. I’m just grateful they’re here.’
SUN: Now, being a pastor on the Main Line and being a pastor in Philadelphia has got to be two different sets of experiences. What has the biggest adjustment been in your new job, and how are you handling it?
RC: Parking is a real issue here. Because many of our congregation aren’t in the immediate area, it’s a commute. Then, they’ve got to find parking. Then, they have to walk up. So that’s been a shift. Where I was in Ardmore, we didn’t have much parking. But it doesn’t even come close to what’s going on around here.
SUN: Well, thank you so much for giving me some of your time today. I really appreciate it.
RC: Thank you.
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